Rethinking Real Estate – Patrick Francey

People sometimes don’t succeed in real estate after making mistakes. But what if we start rethinking real estate as an industry where you could succeed on your second try? Would you invest in real estate again? Much of what real estate investors are learning is just wrong, and that’s where mistakes get made. That’s why real estate gets a bad reputation. In this episode, Patrick Francey talks about supporting investors and providing education to help investors avoid making mistakes. Tune in and grab some ideas that Patrick shares in this episode.

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About Patrick Francey

Patrick Francey is the real deal. An authentic and effective educator and speaker, charismatic—and occasionally funny—host of The Everyday Millionaire podcast, established Canadian-based real estate investor, and Chief Executive Officer of The Real Estate Investment Network (REIN). His 35+ years as a multiple business owner contribute to Patrick’s vision, development, and growth of The Real Estate Investment Network. He is a genuine, driving force behind the business and development that supports The Real Estate Investment Network Team’s foundational ethos and inspiration, believing the most meaningful way to grow is by helping and guiding members of the REIN community to achieve their goals.

Proud husband, father, and grandfather, Patrick’s motto says it best: Success is SIMPLE. Significantly Impact Many People’s Lives Everyday. In times of reflection, Patrick recognizes he will always be a work in progress, a rough draft of who he has yet to become. He remains inspired to live his calling of supporting people to become their most amazing self and to live their best life. Over the past 25 years, Patrick has been a friend, advisor, mentor, and coach to countless real estate investors, entrepreneurs, and individuals who aspire to grow and be the best they can be.

Rethinking Real Estate – Patrick Francey

We’re excited. We’re joined by Patrick Francey. He is an educator, coach, speaker and host of The Everyday Millionaire Podcast. He is the CEO of the Real Estate Investment Network, REIN, which is Canada’s largest real estate educational platform. Patrick is a proud husband, father and grandfather. He’s inspired and happiest when he contributes to supporting others’ success. This interview with Patrick will bring great value to active investors, passive investors and Canadian real estate stakeholders as he is boots on the ground in the real estate space and is a thought leader in the sector. Welcome, Patrick. Thanks for being here.

REID Patrick Francey | Rethinking Real Estate

I hope I can live up to that introduction. Thanks. I’m glad to be here. I’m looking forward to it.

We’re happy to have you on. Patrick, please tell us a little bit about your background and your start in real estate. Please stop short before getting into REIN.

If I go back further, I’ve been an entrepreneur and a business owner since 1984 when I had my entrepreneurial accident. I stepped into space and built a retail business in Edmonton, Alberta. Over the years, we did well and built that business. We go back one more step. Along that journey, I had several mentors and people that I admired in the space. What I noticed about them was that as successful as they were as business owners, they all owned real estate as well. I went, “That’s an interesting thing.”

At that point, I didn’t know how to spell real estate. Is it one word? Is it two words? Do I capitalize it? I didn’t know what to do. I knew that made sense to me. When I talked to them, they were going, “You never know how you’re going to exit your business. When you look at how you’re going to support your financial future, you need to build other assets. Real estate is one of those assets that you need to consider.” In about 2000 is when I started investing in real estate and that was my introduction to the community called the Real Estate Investment Network.

Patrick, your name is synonymous with REIN. We’re looking forward to exploring and learning about how you took an average real estate educational group and turned it into the largest educational and networking platform for real estate investors across the country. In turn, it has been a factory for creating millionaires across Canada. Maybe you can tell us about REIN and your journey within this great organization.

I wish I could take credit for turning it into and creating the brand that it is. I was certainly part of all that journey but REIN goes back years ago. It started with a gentleman by the name of Tim Johnson. At the time, he had a different agenda around the Real Estate Investment Network but was starting to see what was driving real estate and that some interesting economic nuances were consistent with how a real estate market reacted. He started to get guys together and they built this thing called the Real Estate Investment Network with a different agenda initially.

Along the way, he met a guy by the name of Don R. Campbell. Don worked with Tim. In about 2000, Don took over the Real Estate Investment Network from Tim Johnson. Don went on to write some great books and seven bestsellers. He put REIN on the map in the context that it was. I came on to join Don in his growth in 2007. I bought him out in 2012. Along that way, I was a part of his executive team. I was part of the speakers and research team. I bought the business in 2012 and here we are. It’s the Coles Notes of the story but that is how it came about.

We appreciate your humility and modesty. When you did take over the company, you did make some significant changes. When you took over, what changes did you make? How has it been able to then service more investors across Canada?

It’s like any business. At some point, an owner realizes that you become the limiting part of your business if the business is all about you. Early on, Don learned and realized that for him to scale the business, it had to be more than just about him. I built the relationship when I met Don back in 2000 and our relationship evolved. We got to know each other a little bit. The point is that, with any business, the realization is that to scale, you have to put a great team together.

I came in with a different view of the world with some ideas and ways of speaking and presenting that were far different. That opened up a door of opportunity for other investors to hear what REIN was all about differently from a different voice and perspective. That was helpful overall to the business. We started shifting the model around who we included and put on the stage. I went through a big learning curve there.

Ultimately, that was what it was about. I came in with a different view of the world with a different business background and perspective. I came to support Don and being who Don wanted to be in the space called real estate investing and in the REIN community. I got to grow within that space myself, not only as a speaker, as a presenter and as an educator. That does take some training and real focused effort to be brilliant on stage. My goal is how do I get my message to this community or my audience?

I want to add one thing to that. In the context of supporting real estate investors and being educators, one of the things that we always asked ourselves before we got on the stage is, “What am I going to present today that is going to have my audience do something tomorrow that they wouldn’t have done before hearing me speak?” At that moment, you automatically shift to making that presentation, making everything about the audience.

It takes all of the focus off of you although you want to present it brilliantly and interesting and all of those things. When you make it about the audience, it shifts the education. We were never there to sell anything. We didn’t sell real estate or $30,000 coaching programs. I’m not saying that’s wrong. What I’m saying is we weren’t there to do that. We were only there to provide great content and context for real estate investors.

Before any of these real estate educational platforms started like BiggerPockets, which is huge, REIN was already in this space. Maybe you can talk to us about the plans and the growth of REIN. Are you focused on staying in Canada or do you have any plans of moving to the US?

The model of REIN itself in the world of education goes beyond education. There are three fundamental components we look at. First off, we work backward from supporting real estate investors in creating a financial future investing in real estate, whether that be what they refer to as security, financial certainty or financial freedom. We then provide education because what we’ve discovered is that a lot of what real estate investors are learning is wrong. It’s simply that. That’s where mistakes get made and real estate gets a bad reputation.

The other component of it and this was the vision from many years ago was, “Quit being a real estate speculator and be a real estate investor.” It means to look at the research and the economic fundamentals that drive real estate and then use those economic fundamentals to make a decision. We provide research.

The other part of it is that what we know supports the success of any investor is putting yourself in a like-minded community and in a culture of support that is in sharing. Also, understanding each other and then creating an environment for investors to show up, rise, shine and be in a space that they consider safe because everybody is in the same conversation and understands the economic fundamentals.

At the end of the day, you know this as well as I do work, perhaps even better. As investors, we want to know where real estate is going. Quite frankly, we don’t care where it’s been. I don’t even care where it is now. These are things to note but as an investor, I want to know where this real estate is going. I want to be in front of the wave. I don’t want to be chasing that wave. That’s why when we look at the research, we look at the economic fundamentals that drive real estate.

REID Patrick Francey | Rethinking Real Estate

We have a system and a process. It’s proven. It’s been working for many years. That’s the long and the short of what we do. Expanding that conversation, it’s pushing it out more to those individuals who we believe are interested in investing in real estate but don’t understand or are afraid because they don’t have the knowledge that they need. They don’t believe they do.

That‘s what people need to get started in real estate. They need that support. A lot of people need hand-holding and getting past that fear.

REID Patrick Francey | Rethinking Real Estate

Also, it’s the community and the tribe. I’ve attended REIN events in the past. A lot of people have been part of REIN for decades. I’ve noticed that a lot of people who used to be members have become speakers or larger investors who went from being students of the game to be a presenter or managing large investment firms or real estate private equity firms. It’s an interesting journey. Maybe we can touch on it a bit more here.

What happens is that people get excited about real estate and the financial opportunities that it creates. That can be done with future income or the return on investment in the future. Many take it on like, “I’m good at this.” They take on income-producing strategies. All of a sudden, they don’t want a 9:00 to 5:00 job anymore or punch the clock. They take on real estate in a whole different way.

Whether that’s fixing, flipping, doing an LP or whatever strategy they engage in that generates income as opposed to the future or a combination thereof, that’s what they do. Many of them have trained on our stage. We saw many out there that I spent a lot of time with, training them to be great speakers to understand real estate and communication from the stage. That was part of the journey and we see that happening all the time.

You have to give us some tips to be a great speaker. We’ve been in the real estate content creation space for several years. We have gone and spoken on gurus and expert channels. We’ve had many experts, educators and coaches on our YouTube show. We’ve done the research into most real estate educational platforms across North America.

What we can attest to is that almost every single one of those platforms has an agenda, either to sell a coaching program, find retail investors for real estate projects or be a capital raising platform for others. REIN, however, is very unique. Aside from its sole mission, which is educating its investors, REIN does not have an agenda. Explain this very interesting business model to us, if you can please.

As the owner and my executive team, it speaks to what we refer to as our values, which is our ethos. Ethos, by the most common definition of it, is a statement of the character of an organization or an individual. What I’ve learned the hard way, sadly, is that if you’re not staying true to your values, partnerships, businesses and relationships fail. We got clear on our values. Out of that came our ethos.

I happen to use ethos as an acronym. My brain sometimes fires that way. To a fault, I seem to put an acronym far too many things. The E in ETHOS stood for Energy, which meant, “What am I bringing into a room? How is my team showing up? How are we as an organization showing up?” I want to bring energy into it. I never want to be known as that guy who when they walk into a room sucks the energy out of the room. We’ve all had that experience with those individuals who seemed to be built that way.

The T stood for Trust. I do an explanation of the four dimensions of trust, which I won’t get into here. Trust was an important one. I use four dimensions of trust and an explanation of it. The H stood for Heart. Your heart has to be in what you’re doing truly. You can have a great mindset to achieve anything but if your heart isn’t in it, you eventually give it up and go away.

Ownership is the O. For me, ownership is probably one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned over the years. I’ve taken this to an extreme level after I read a book by Jocko Willink called Extreme Ownership, which I recommend everybody read 2 or 3 times probably. I’m a tough study perhaps but that’s what I did. Extreme Ownership is that my life, my business and my relationships are a reflection of what or who I’m being.

I hold myself 100% accountable for everything that happens, the good and the bad. Lots of people want to take credit for all the good like, “Look what I did.” When the yogurt hits the fan, they go, “That was that fall. It was the economy. I have a crappy partner.” I don’t operate that way. The S was for Sharing, being very open with what I share in terms of content and what I give of myself in terms of my energy or insights, knowledge and support. That speaks to what we’re trying to do within the context of our ethos as the Real Estate Investment Network.

We want to support people in achieving their financial goals by investing in real estate in this case. The contribution part of it is important to me. The relationship part of it is who I am when I’m not on camera and when I’m working with my team. Our team is built this way. We show up this way everywhere we go. There’s never me having to generate if I’m tired because I didn’t sleep well. Yes, I generate. My intention is always to show up well, live my ethos and live the ethos of the Real Estate Investment Network.

Thank you for sharing that. To add to that, proving that you don’t have an agenda in what you do, you believe in US real estate investing even though your platform educates Canadians on the Canadian real estate market. Talk to us about this dynamic. What are your views about US real estate?

The fundamental of what we teach is looking at the economic fundamentals and making a decision. We don’t have an agenda. We have a research team. Also, I research every day. I got all nerdy and obsessed with it over the past couple of years. I’m looking at what’s happening economically. I want to see the future, not only for myself and my family but for the community. I take that on myself.

The point is there is a systematic approach to investing in real estate when you’re looking at what the economic fundamentals are. It’s what we call the economic drivers and the economic influencers. That system and thought process apply in any first-world country. The economic fundamentals that drive a market in Canada, Alberta, Vancouver specifically or Texas are all the same. There is a process that has to happen within an economy for a real estate market to grow or reverse that growth. In normal real estate, there’s what we call a real estate cycle.

I’m a big fan of what’s going on in the US. Given what’s happening in Canada, I’m looking more at opportunities in the US. From a business model point of view, it’s far more challenging for us unless we pick 1 state or 2 and then focus on those states or cities. As we all know, the US is huge. It’s 10X what Canada is in population. There’s a lot more to consider investing in real estate but the process doesn’t change.

The state of Texas alone has a bigger economy than the whole country of Canada.

Quit being a real estate speculator and be a real estate investor. Share on X

Don’t forget Florida.

With “what’s happening” in Canada brings us to our next question. We’re going to keep politics out of this conversation but when you have a leader in the Canadian real estate space, we can’t give up on the opportunity to get your perspective. There’s a war taking place between developers, real estate investors, politicians, young couples and new families looking to buy a home but can’t afford one. Everyone is blaming each other for the unaffordability of real estate in Canada. Please tell us how we got here. What is Patrick Francey’s solution to the unaffordability in the Canadian real estate market, particularly in Vancouver and Toronto?

Something that you said was the case. When we trickle down to those first-time homebuyers, those new younger families that want to own a piece of real estate and have their families grow up in that, it presents challenges. We then have what we are all about in terms of investors and what investors are trying to achieve.

To your point, everybody’s looking for something to blame like, “It’s those foreign investors. They’re the problem.” “It’s the NIMBY, Not In My BackYard people’s fault.” Everybody is looking for someone or something to blame for what’s happening in the real estate market. The reality of it is it’s a huge question because it’s far more nuanced than any one thing.

“We’re going to tax those bad foreign investors.” They’ve tried that. It doesn’t work because it’s only one part of a far bigger problem. When we look at what is the problem, we have to break it down. If you look at Vancouver and Toronto specifically, what have you got? You’ve got a densified area for all the reasons it’s densified, Greenbelt in Toronto, that GTA area. In Vancouver, you’ve got mountains, oceans and agriculture.

What do you do? You got to build up and densify. That causes its problems because then you’ve got those individuals who are saying, “Not in my backyard. I don’t want a twenty-story condo building in my neighborhood because it’s going to destroy the neighborhood. We don’t have parking and infrastructure. It’s going to bring out crime,” whatever the story is around all of those things. You’ve then got bureaucrats. I’m sorry. They are at the municipal level who go, “I don’t want to be made wrong and not get voted in.” They kick the can down the road and tap dance around it. No decisions get made. It takes years to get a building handled in Vancouver.

It takes 1.5 years to 2 years to get a building permit whereas our American friends are completing a project when it’s shovel ready to completion in less than 2 years. It was shocking when I was seeing those numbers.

That’s a valid point to interject because that’s exactly what’s happening. It isn’t outside. We all joke about it but the reality of it is, if you’re a politician, the minute you get elected is to get reelected. This has been the case for years. We’re seeing it even more. It’s politics over policy. Nobody’s willing to make the hard decisions. You’ve got such a diverse view of the world from those people who vote you in.

We see the divisiveness in what’s happening with the pandemic, lockdowns, mandates, vaxxed and no-vaxxed and open up the economy or shut down the economy. It’s polarizing. That starts with leadership, full stop. I don’t care what anybody else has to say about that particular thing. If we have leaders who were conscious of the words they were speaking, it would be far less controversial, polarizing and divisive.

Politics overtakes policy so those are the things that are happening and it happens in the real estate world. I can get fired up about politics. I don’t think we have a leader at a federal level. As we do this particular interview, Pierre Poilievre has thrown his hat in the ring. There’s some chance there. I followed Pierre for years. I’ve started to grow as a fan of his and listening to him.

Short of that, I don’t look across our political landscape and see a bunch of leaders in there. I’m optimistic about Pierre Poilievre. He’s also got to deal with what he’s got to deal with. He’s not a messiah. He’s not going to come in and fix the world. This is the problem that we face with politics in Canada with a 37 million or 38 million population. We’re a small country in the scope of things.

We have commodities and resources. We’re barely a rounding error to the US and other countries. We don’t have a lot of clout in that regard. We certainly need a leader that can do that. That all comes back to one fundamental issue that we have in the world of real estate. We need leadership from the municipal level and right to the top, full stop.

REID Patrick Francey | Rethinking Real Estate

Rethinking Real Estate: What people need to get started in real estate is support, handholding, and getting past that fear because of a lack of knowledge.

Focus on those young couples and new families who are trying to buy a piece of real estate as a home, not developers. If you were trying to remedy that particular issue and trying to find the cause and the problem to then create a remedy and have a prescription for it, diagnose and then prescribe, what is the problem? Why can’t young couples afford a home? Is it because there’s not enough product? Is it because developers can’t build? How can that be resolved? Is it because of mortgage laws that exist? What can remedy the issue for new families and young couples to be able to buy a home in Vancouver?

There are a couple of things that are happening. If we go back in several years, this has always been some level of conversation. When I was eighteen years old, affordability and interest rates were an issue. This is a normal march of a growing economy and population and the need for people to want to own a home or what they believe is a need. There’s a desire for Canadians to own their space. Fundamentally, there’s a belief system there that is driving part of the problem.

If we go back in several years, we wouldn’t be having the same conversation to this degree. It’s become a problem given the economic conditions that we find ourselves in. Is there a solution to the problem? I don’t know. How about opening up the economy? How about getting things rolling again so that builders aren’t having to increase costs? How about getting the bureaucracy and the bureau crazies out of the way so that we can make some decisions to develop, increase supply strategically and be clear on it?

We talk a lot about supply issues. There are no supply issues when it comes to condos, to be honest with you. The biggest supply issue we have is single-family detached units. That’s the biggest challenge that we face. Go to Alberta, there are more condos than they know what to do with but people don’t want condos. Even in Vancouver, although the condo market is hot, it’s not that there aren’t available units. You can go down through the lower mainland. In Toronto, it’s the same thing. People don’t want it.

What changed? The pandemic changed. I got to work from home. A stat that I can top off the top of my head is that our work-from-home cohort increased by 300%. Twenty-five percent of workers are permanently working from home. You’re going to do that in a 400-square-foot condo when you’ve got somebody else who wants to work from home? My wife and I live on an acreage with two separate buildings and sometimes it feels cramped. I joke about that.

The point is that I can’t blame a mother and a father with two kids saying, “I can’t work in a townhouse or a condo. This isn’t functional.” They’re telling the truth about that. When we look at all of the conditions that we have, it’s a big part of what’s happening in these affordability issues driven by the needs of people that have shifted. Working from home is a big part of that. Not wanting to be in close contact is another part of that.

You and I are maybe pretty casual when it comes to our fear or lack of fear around COVID. I had zero fear around it. That may be me being dumb but I don’t have any fear around it. Lots of people don’t have that. They’re very afraid. I’m not going to make that wrong but then understand that there are a lot of those individuals who don’t want to be in a condo. They don’t want to be going up and down an elevator. There’s still a stigma around it and they’re nervous about it.

I want to switch the conversation and talk about The Everyday Millionaire Podcast. I had the absolute pleasure of being a guest on your podcast. I learned a lot even though I was the guest and I was the one being interviewed. Could you please tell us about your journey as a podcast host? How did the idea come about? What are your plans for the show moving forward?

There’s a little bit of depth to that question. At the time, Don, who was a friend, was pushing me to write a book. He was like, “You’ve got so much there.” There was a phrase coined by the Real Estate Investment Network, “Treat your real estate investing like a business. That’s where success lives.” I took that particular topic on and gave it depth. I laid out how to treat your real estate investing like a business.

What does that even mean? I broke it down into several components. The point of it is that I was having others like peers put pressure on me to write a book but I didn’t want to write a book for several reasons. One of the things that I came to understand is that part of my resistance was to put myself out there. I didn’t want to put myself on a platform to be criticized, ridiculed, made wrong or whatever that is. It’s your ego’s way of keeping you playing small even though you may have many gifts to offer the world. I came to that realization.

I was on vacation with my wife, Steffany. We were in St. Lucia and kicking back on the beach. I was contemplating all of that. The realization that I came to was that a podcast would be a cool option. It was years ago that I started the podcast. At the same time, the title, The Everyday Millionaire, came into my world because I was surrounded by real estate investors and small business owners for many years.

They were the guy next door that worked hard and kept chugging away. They had a significant net worth. Yet, they weren’t putting themselves out there. They weren’t even extravagant in their lifestyle. The Everyday Millionaire came from the concept that some cool and quiet people have accumulated, through hard work and smart work, a great net worth. A lot of people want that million-dollar net worth.

Look at the research and the economic fundamentals that drive real estate. Then use those economic fundamentals to make a decision. Share on X

I thought about the podcast interviewing what I refer to as everyday millionaires who could share their journey. That morphed into some cool people who were on their journey to become everyday millionaires but were uber-focused. They have a lot to share in their journey. Has everybody been an everyday millionaire? No, but I can say that most have. Everybody has lived what I refer to as those individuals, the extraordinary or the seemingly ordinary achieving the extraordinary. That was always the basis for the interviews that I did and the people that were invited to the show.

Last question before we get into the next segment of our show. This is more of a personal question. What are Patrick’s plans? We all know you’ve done tremendously well in business and establishing REIN. Do you have any plans to possibly make a switch to politics? Please tell us, what do you see yourself being involved in the next years?

No politics for me. I’d rather stand on the sidelines. I don’t want to be in there. I don’t do well in that space. I’m not very political. I joke about it as a coach and the work that I’ve done over the years. I look at it and go, “What is my life about? Am I living my life fully? Am I living my value? Am I being true to myself?” I can say without question that I am. I do that because I am clear on my values, what I need to do to be a contribution and what lights me up.

I’m on the Freedom 95 program. I have no intentions of shutting down or not doing what I do because it speaks to what I hold in the highest regard, which is contributing, supporting the success of others and having significance, which is a standard human need. It is an actual human need that has significance. I want to do it by contributing to the success of others. That may sound altruistic or idealistic but it’s true for me. I’ve lived my life that way.

It took me a while to find a space to play in that I could do that. My retail business back in Alberta, in Edmonton, which I still own, was very niche and focused on young athletes and world-class Olympic athletes. Ultimately, it was supporting others in achieving their dreams. I love doing that stuff. To me, it’s about supporting others. I came out of the chute that way. It’s just in my DNA.

The best way to go about building a business is by solving a problem and it seems you’ve figured that out.

Patrick, you’re awesome.

None of this is easy. I’ve had huge challenges and made huge mistakes. I want to say that clearly. As much as I’m living my values, I’m happy to share that the biggest mistakes I’ve ever made in business and in my life were when I compromised my values and lived out of integrity to who I am. That’s not making anybody else wrong. You have your values, both of you. I have my values. Yours aren’t right and mine is wrong or vice versa but they may not align.

If they don’t align, it doesn’t mean I don’t like you or I don’t want to be your friend. I just may not do business with you or go on vacation with you. I’m happy to go for a beer perhaps. These are the mistakes that I see small businesses and real estate investors making. In the coaching that I do with people, I see it even with their significant others in marriage or relationship. It’s such a big lesson to get. Many of my lessons are expensive and hard but here I am so it’s all good.

We appreciate all that. We’ll go to the next segment of our show.

The Ten Championship Rounds to Financial Freedom. Whatever comes top of mind, we’re going to do rapid fire. First question, Patrick, who is the most influential person in your life?

My wife.

REID Patrick Francey | Rethinking Real Estate

Rethinking Real Estate: If we had leaders who led and were conscious of their words, it would be far less controversial, far less polarizing, and far less divisive. But because politics overtakes policy, those are the things that are happening in the real estate world.

It’s probably the most common answer we get. Men are all scared of their wives.

I’ve got the most amazing significant other that I could ever dream of. We are best friends. We support each other. We both have had a great life doing what we do. Coming back to values, we align, challenge each other, debate with each other and piss each other off but it never changes who we are in our relationship.

The second question, what is the number one book you’d recommend?

There are so many depending on where you are in your journey and what it is you’re facing. Many years ago, as a young man, I read The Wealthy Barber. I then went on to read Robert Kiyosaki’s book, Rich Dad Poor Dad. I’m still a fan of Robert Kiyosaki, all his weirdness and all who he is. I love him. He’s awesome. I also admire the man. He’s still doing what he loves to do. I don’t agree with everything he says but I like him.

Along the way, I’ve read many studies on leadership, personal development and being the best I can be. Anything that Wayne Dyer wrote, I was a real fan of. One of my favorite books is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink Nick and his partner. They’ve had an impact on my life that I can think of and there are many others.

Great answer because it’s difficult to say a number one book. It depends on what journey in your life you’re in and where you need assistance if it’s about financial literacy, self-development or other aspects.

Patrick, if you had the opportunity to travel back in time, what advice would you give your younger self?

Be more courageous.

I see him as a very courageous guy. I’m not sure how much more courageous he wants to be. Maybe he wants to go parachuting.

It was my younger self.

I’m excited about this one. What’s the best investment you’ve ever made?

It may sound cliche but any investment I’ve ever made in myself has been the best investment. I can look at all sorts of assets and go, “Those are good too.” For me, it’s the investment in myself and my relationship with my wife.

As investors, we want to know where real estate is going. We don't care where it's been, but we look at the research and the economic fundamentals that drive real estate, to be in front of the wave of real estate investing. Share on X

What’s the worst investment you’ve ever made? What lessons did you learn from it?

I’ve made a lot of bad investments. I don’t know if I’ve had a worse. Here’s my fundamental core belief system. Based on what I believe in consciousness, universal law and all of the things that I operate on top of, it’s all part of the journey. Out of that, I get to be better and improve. If I wouldn’t make that mistake, I wouldn’t be where I am and have learned what I needed to learn.

I don’t know if there’s a worst. I don’t have regrets in my life. I know right away that I can collapse that by looking at what I learned from it and what I’m grateful for in terms of what I learned from it and how it has defined me as a man, a husband, a business owner and as a leader that I hope to be one day. All of it is part of that journey. There’s no worst.

I’ll share a quick story with you. I shared it with you, Ava, on the podcast. A friend told me that there are no mistakes. There are outcomes. You either like the outcome or you don’t. If you don’t like the outcome, put in the correction and move on. I adopted that. Consciously and subconsciously, I did take his advice.

The next question is how much would you need in the bank to retire now? What’s your number?

I don’t have a number. If nothing changed for me in terms of my lifestyle, I’m 100% okay. It’s all relative. We live pretty meagerly. I don’t have stuff. I’m not interested in material things. We have a beautiful home on a great piece of property. We want for nothing. I’m not interested in cars and things that I have to maintain, insure, fuel and worry about scratching.

Private jets to your events.

The team has encouraged me to set my sights a little higher when it comes to travel, no doubt about that.

If you could have dinner with someone dead or alive, who would it be?

Many like Martin Luther King.

It’s Black History Month. Great choice.

I didn’t know that. I’m an admirer. Believe it or not, Elvis Presley. Not for the reasons you think. Martin Luther King and Elvis Presley had different agendas but they changed the world. There are probably many other musicians that have done that. I’m not a fan of Elvis Presley in terms of his music. Although I like it, it’s not a thing for me.

REID Patrick Francey | Rethinking Real Estate

Rethinking Real Estate: Affordability and interest rates were an issue; this is a normal march of a growing economy and population.

When I look at his history, when he introduced rock and roll to the world, if you look at that specific period, he changed the culture. I found that like, “That was interesting.” For whatever reason, I don’t think it’d be all that profound but it would be cool to meet the guy. Martin Luther King, for sure. He changed the world.

If you weren’t doing what you’re doing now, what would you be doing now?

Some version of the same thing.

My favorite question is book smarts or street smarts? What would you pick?

In business, in life, in real estate, in success, what you’ve seen and the experiences in life, do you feel like book smarts are more successful than street smarts? What is needed essentially to have success in any part of the endeavor in life?

There’s an analogy that I use. I can learn how to swim on YouTube or in a book. If I want to learn how to swim, I jump in the water. Ultimately, when I get in, am I jumping into the deep or in the shallow end? Those are going to define what I learn when it comes to doing that. There’s a combination of both. JG has a fundamental philosophy, “Jump out of the plane without a parachute.” I trust that I’ll be able to build it on the way down and it’ll open before I hit the ground. That’s not to minimize the study that he does but he’s much more built that way.

There is a fundamental that this is where people get stuck in anything, whether it be real estate, learning, life or business. They want to wait to have the grand piano built before they sit down to play. They want to know everything about everything before they start that journey. The reality of it is that sometimes you need to get going. Create on the way built on what you need to do and it’s going to change and shift. In other words, you build that grand piano, get on the journey and realize, “All I needed was a player piano.” Why did we waste that time, expense and money? Why did I go through that fear and anxiety when all I needed to do was just start? It’s along those lines.

Patrick, last question. If you had $1 million cash and you had to make 1 investment now, what would it be?

It’s bitcoin.

That’s awesome. We appreciate your transparency and your time. I know you’re super busy coming here. You’ve added value to us and I’m sure our readers as well.

This is an incredible interview. Thanks, Patrick. If you can quickly let everybody know what is the best way that they reach you.

The best way to get ahold of us and reach out is you can always email me at That’s always the easy to go but if you want to learn about Real Estate Investing Network, it’s Go to our website. Follow me on Twitter and Instagram, @PFrancey. I’m always around there on the social media side of things.

Patrick, thank you so much.